" Hi this is John Schafer you're listening to WNYC. On demand pod cast streaming and MP3 downloads available when you want at wnyc.org. And iTunes. W and -- is supported by Austria where cal bills open electron anxious organic farmers sell their -- in supermarkets in the -- to waltz when he learned to walk. There's more information and experience Austria dot com."

" But."

" You've heard the old saw about how to get to Carnegie Hall. Practice practice practice but if it's a comfortable salary -- after. Consider working there is a stage hands. This is sound check on Jon -- and ahead today like stagehands can make half a million dollars a year. Plus New York City opera opens its new season on an unconventional man. And later still the eclectic sounds of the London based trio called the very best. To begin though it may be better to move music stands -- read music off of them. The top five stage -- Carnegie Hall earned an average of 431000. Dollars during the fiscal year that ended in June 2008. That according to a recent Bloomberg News report that examines the holes tax return. The story also revealed that those big salaries of the result of an eighty hour work week. Philip Boroff as the reporter who broke the story he joins us in our studio that -- a -- so why how does a stage hand. However talented and at whatever level of Paul he or she is working at earned half a million dollars in the year."

" Well is he said it a lot of it has to do is their most of institute the overtime that these states hands the five full time staffers. Have an option to work an awful lot of overtime. It every every week -- All year and they exercised an option and you know I've talked to people who know the stage hands in the -- around all the time. And today the union the union actually. Claimed up with me when I was doing this story although I've talked to them -- union is -- the -- national alliance of theatrical stage employees yes local one of -- and and they they say that. These these people worked so hard that they they they sacrifice so much although it's their option to do so right and no what is frustrating is that that contract is it not been disclosed I would I would love to see that contract and."

" See the exact details in this well and it's gonna be different mean you know -- cancel over the city in in every theater work overtime but the average stage hand for example at the Joyce theater. Earning just under 80000 dollars a year. Why is Carnegie. Off the charts."

" Well -- has been off the charts for probably decades and this is in as we're talking about before this is something. And went diminishment story that it's -- something a little story that I think the daily news I discovered this. A few weeks before. Once it was well into my research that. This seems to be a tabloid story that the -- it that rises every years or social status it has it recur is like every ten years or something yes that's right some weird musical comet that comes back through the the music world right and so the exact same cast of characters were making. This the exact same amount of money minus 36%. Ten years ago right so is in the -- 300 that they were making this. And it's oh it's it's something of a mystery -- the unity here but double time here about triple time. There are all kinds it will work rules. But. -- really comes down to be having having this contract permits them to work all those hours and make all that money but."

" From Carnegie -- point of view does it make sense to have. You know the same experienced guys who know your whole -- every piece of that equipment. You know even if it's if in even if you're paying -- a premium because it's all double time -- triple time doesn't make sense for them to to go with these five guys."

" One thing for -- it doesn't make sense to again on the wrong side of this union and have them strike. Carnegie Hall has never been struck I was told that of course is the first time for anything. And yes that's there argument that you have. 800 shows a year Carnegie hall and I'd say did you -- 800. It sounds wrong doesn't it but yet so yeah until they do have three theaters three theaters and it sounds possible but that's that did that sit in fact I think it was in the year there were talking up their mind at an eight -- in almost 88. But they're three they're the -- As they explains to me -- so many one offs that shows come in. So they they come in early in the morning the stagehands are helping to load in the equipment set everything up. They're they're operating in the sound the lights focusing the lights during the rehearsal during the show. And in their -- out so that the American and is even though Carnegie hall of course wouldn't have the elaborate sets at The Metropolitan Opera. There's a lot of activity. And debt. They have the continuity and one could also are of course argue that. Might be better for the economy might be more equitable if instead of one person making 500000 dollars 530044. Dollars you had. Two people making what exit what is 275000. In order to progress. And there's this whole other argument the Carnegie Hall says. We did the impact is negligible that yes we're paying all this overtime but it wouldn't be damaged cheaper for us if we divided up the work and."

" But are there other people I mean you know can't just be I mean I've done. Plenty of shows Carnegie hall and there's more than 45 guys run around backstage especially on a night where all three theaters all three holes ago that one's right. Well there at five full timers and then learn this new word recently the over hires. Over -- yes override it sounds like a euphemism all right Phillip explain over hires with. Well. Over hired among the rest of us might be part timer. But they don't like that term because I guess these part timers might be working eighty hours a week but there working all over the place so there. Extremely full time stage hands but they're doing their full time work all over the place and we were speaking with Philip Boroff he's the Bloomberg News reporter who wrote the story about Kennedy's. Apparently. Hyper inflated salaries stage hands but Phil was put that in some perspective. Yes the -- agents are making more than the chief financial lofts are etc. at Carnegie Hall. They're still not making as much as -- Ellison who runs Carnegie hall and makes 946000. Dollars. And the musicians that are in there you know a musician. Kind of musician with a healthy international career might make. 3040000. Dollars in the night and a hundred shows in years you're looking at 34 million dollars so just put in a little bit of context. How. Biggest story is it's."

" To think about this solo that well it's at the it's certainly epic story and that I've never guidance so many responses. To any story I've done I mean emails purchased flooding and from saying what you head. The musicians. Who were very angry that is timely and some musicians are underemployed. -- here's here's this fellow making five and 30000 dollars. Then there -- the emails from the stage hands who. Said first of all that I'm an elitist that it was not giving full credit to all the hours and on the skill that they employ. And that the story is misrepresented if the actual economics of this world that as you pointed out -- the choice stage hands make. 80000 apartheid I was meeting -- stagehands and another venue accountant and you and yesterday and they're -- and twenty dollars an hour. So do the math you know what the overtime that's the same union writes well actually okay so. The these are nonunion stage hands and let you make that point so yes the Jewish State's hands were nonunion until. Was that week or two ago when they voted. To join local one of these international alliance of theatrical stage employees -- non -- in stage hands are not raking are not polling -- That kind of money. So. And then you also -- emails from people who were loyal contributors to card all. Who said they'll think twice about writing a check. Knowing that. Their their money will go towards some of us some portion of the monitor maybe a 10% to ever will go to these five states."

" so what's -- mean what's your take away from all of this are are we talking apples and oranges when we start -- salaries around four."

" Executives artists and the people who keep the hall open and running. Is there I mean if you had your druthers would -- be like a wholesale old renegotiation. Of that contract with the union."

" But actually after thirteen years of Bloomberg and Bloomberg News just kind of just the facts ma'am organization it. As a -- I'm not I don't have a strong opinion on this I mean this was disclosed in a tax return I just wanted to put it out there. If those people who feel that the stagehands overpaid then you might one question would be. You know who's accountable for this and that case the board is accountable that. It's Clive Johnson who who is the executive and artistic director Carnegie Hall. And then the board of Carnegie Hall led by sandy -- And you can see why this would not be the first choice of the board to get involved in this that they have their own jobs that are retired to they want to. Did they wanna get into a scuffle with."

" A protracted negotiation with a very strong union that can shut down broadly. That has shut -- has the exact exactly that. Philip Boroff the Bloomberg News reporter behind the story on the stagehands -- Carnegie Hall which. To your surprise I think a lot of of the -- has turned to kind of cause celeb that -- thanks for coming and sharing it with us today my pleasure."

" It doesn't work can --"

" Concern."

" Then again that doesn't -- and fun."

" Since then check on judge Schaeffer and justice the Yankees enjoyed a new stadium on there -- World Series victory. Perhaps a similar Fung -- can be found in. Opera house New York City opera opens a new season tonight."

" In -- extensively renovated home now called the David H Polk theatre. It's been a rocky offseason for the company with a huge deficit and a."

" Messy leadership crisis. The company has taken steps though to get back on stable ground looking at every nook and cranny to save money and to do the kind of."

" Cultural. Programs that they've become known for here with some analysis is Robin -- over in the cultural reporter at the New York Times. And joining us on the phone is James Jordan whose editor of the opera blog part -- box. James welcome back to sound check."

" John Robin welcome to you let me start with you general manager and artistic director George Steele he arrived in February and he inherited. A mess. Fifteen million dollar deficit how has he been able to connect chip away at."

" Has he been able to chip away I think he's certainly making a concerted effort he's managed to renegotiate with two unions the singers and orchestras -- contracts. And he's creating a leaner meaner city opera he is reduce their number of weeks later I about a third down to five productions and 35 performances. And he's managed to kind of continue individual fund raising which is kind of something of America will get that they were out of their home was stark for a year and you can really lose momentum and some of your constituency people stuck with them. And disability I mean just no visible on the on a very crowded cultural scene it definitely hurt them I mean this is a moment of promise because tonight they reopened in new home. So easy renegotiated contracts with the unions. Did that extends to the unions that cover for example stage hands and you know all the all the people who you don't see up on stage or in the -- I'm not sure of the stage hands I know he did this singers and he's done an orchestra. And both of them agreed to reduce weeks with certain caveats. But it's certainly going every little bit helps."

" James the the opening concert tonight is big sort of festive gala thing and then. The real work begins with this you go by skull opera called -- Very Kynan Forney modernist work DDC that is."

" A statement by city opera isn't a good idea."

" Well it's very much and in line with its city -- mission or at least what its mission -- in the past which is to to visit and to revisit. Our American opera on the and I think it's. It's a particularly good idea to take another look at the -- because. A lot of American -- get the first look but not that many pieces -- second shot and so and it -- tends to be a rule I guess that. When these pieces come back after after a resting period so I think it's been like fifteen years city editor and do the audience is different and maybe the audience is little more ready for the peace now."

" Well -- in fact the audience seems to be chomping at the bit they had to add a fifth performance."

" Yes I was surprised to see that -- but it's it's certainly good news that they are adding the extra performance."

" So let's hear a little bit of the opera Hugo bicycles opera pastor is the the sort of full length opening day after tonight's gala of the new season in New York City opera. -- Which is the first complete operate in the new season by New York City opera. The season opens tonight with a big gig Gallup program and then pastor for four scheduled performances and they actually had to add a fifth. We're talking with James Jordan editor of the opera blog called part -- box and Robin overbay in the cultural reporter of New York Times and Robin."

" As James I think rightly says that this is kind of continuing the mission statement of city opera. But there's -- risk is and others are a real -- this is what illnesses its mandate founded in 1943 by LaGuardia as the people's opera to become an alternative house and do more risk taking and but at the same time -- juncture where this -- company is someone hangs you know in and the brink we where hoping that he considered pull it together. But the you know it's risky fair to go forward -- and -- even though Don Geovany is also coming up down the road this is something that you know is. Described as a tonal and inexplicable and it's definitely you know not something that. Necessarily appeals to a wide mainstream audience although it's funny no Lauren Flanagan who is who is Esther in this in this opera which opens on Saturday and runs through November 19. She was here last week. And was here with one of the publicity people from city opera who told us after the show that she was having more trouble getting. Drumming up interest in Don Giovanni is plastic Mozart opera than in this. -- Recent American opera that really argues that this case that we -- to opera companies I don't know if you always question why is there -- met and New York City opera on the same Lincoln Center campus and they are really need to serve two different purposes. And it really is very heartening to think that there's a whole group that really craves this kind of thing. And is looking forward to having them back. And and James you know the fact that city opera does have this mandate and a reputation for doing. Edgy material it doesn't stop them from doing things like Don Giovanni what about this Don -- production that there bringing next week."

" While the incident seeing it. You know Christian world and it's always. Well and that's always an action director he has is often an interest -- director and he always -- different director elicited different take on how things are done. It's a very attractive young cast. One. Disadvantages as having been the year away from from performing. And is that a lot of this city opera regulars who were there to be early two thousands that. The regular members of the company have signed on with other. With other contracts with other companies and so they're having to build a whole new company. The upside of that and that it doesn't give us a chance to see and hear some young singers in New York. That we might not immediately get a chance to see. They they are. Very fresh faces who were available on short notice since -- If you get the chance to sample what the future of -- is going to be."

" And what do you think about the old -- the Kodak Theatre. Acoustic. A much trumpeted acoustic renovation how important will that be a big improvement you expect."

" Well it's obviously a major issue one of the one of the ongoing arguments over the past decade has been. They use of a sound enhancement systems and New York State theater or the Coke -- it's called now. Which some people called application and there are a lot of you know there was a lot of controversy from tourist who felt like they were getting something sort of Broadway I just. I'm not one of those purist so I've not been out purist about anything bad. I -- So with the acoustic organization. May be now there will be at cedar Winger. Opera can be performed purely acoustic fashion in the -- started to metropolitan and a lot of the other great opera houses of the world where there's there's no electronic intervention. That is a very pleasing idea and also I think. An idea that's going to be more -- more appealing to the traditional public and a traditional public is also part of the opera audience."

" So and a pleasing idea but also maybe an old fashioned one if you think of operas like doctor atomic the recent hit opera from John John Adams. But that's actually it incorporates. Kind of sound amplification."

" Well that that kind of thing obviously you don't wherever it's done is going to be done to to Adams specification and no one's got to try to do the -- to stick it. Com. However. People like Don Giovanni and it was written for a smaller feeder even that the states -- it's it's it's a big leader by European standards. It's still was written with the idea that singers with basic product to stage and come down state to may have something important thing and that there would be a balance struck between the two in the orchestra that the audience would be attentive which. Is not may be an expectation. In the year it's using. A stronger electronic component."

" Robin you or your colleague at the New York Times Anthony Thomas senior wrote today I can make one shore prediction there will be a marked improvement in the integrity. And naturalness of the sound. I know -- toward the space haven't actually heard any music -- yet but do you do you agree I feel like not that there's a lot at stake and that's that's the most important thing I mean let's remember that the New York City opera almost left this house -- these things years looking for a new one they want their -- mostly to improve on the acoustics -- also get out from the shadows and that. They -- have decided to stay mostly because Gerard Martin it was supposed to be. They're new director who came and went quickly to the -- let's let's work with what we've got. And so here's the test to see if this new stage which goes up and down and can accommodate a hundred players versus 65. And these new sound panels that can come and go out. Really make a difference and and that we detest and let's also remember this is not just the city opera's on this it's -- York city ballet is -- well the answer in real tensions through the years and whether they can -- going forward as is another question mark. The renovation -- cost a 107 million dollars so far it's projected to end up around 200 million dollars. And can company for this I mean that's really the question and that and that comes down to whether youngsters in the balance of that Don you uneasiness you need to be thinking. About making ends meet in the forty million dollars a year expense budget and he's a tough times for cultural organizations all over the place. And now their revenue producing last that are performing so. They really you know have to do everything make chances to make ends meet and definitely you know cultural world I think is pulling for them. Well the big gala is tonight city opera opening its season the difficult -- the former state theater Lincoln Center. You'll be there tonight out there Robin government cultural reporter of New York Times James Jordan when will you be making your first trip to the Coke."

" I'll be there for the -- church tomorrow night. James Zahn tomorrow night tomorrow night itself Friday because senator."

" On Saturday night is the opening it runs through the nineteenth then James Jordan is the editor of the opera blog part -- their box."

" James Robin thank you both for being with -- Genentech today thanks John. Bad."

" You amber."

" It's senator. Yeah pain. Day."

" Okay now some proof of just how."

" Musically geeky I in the sound check crew actually are yesterday on our show singer songwriter Carly Simon revealed that the name of the person. Who inspired the song you're so vain."

" Is actually embedded in this new recording of the piece from her latest album. She did say that the name was in reverse at some point inside the songs and only get real music entered confided well. We did it. Here is the original recording of the excerpt in question. I'd now here thanks to the magic of technology and our technical director Irene -- that same bit played backwards. All right so now we know it's David you know that scene in The Wizard of Oz where there which right surrendered Darth yup in the sky and all the people -- don't -- Dorothy. That's how the sound check crew felt yesterday when we heard -- David who's needed. So I guess Carly Simon only unveiled half of the mystery do you know who David is. If you do email us at seven check at WNYC. Dot award. All right coming up next three new CD's for you to check out in our picks of the week and then later. The Malawi born London based case so mom mom why from the very best shares his critically acclaimed new album. And that will be coming up in just a few minutes. Thanks for listening to WNYC. On demand please check out our other programs that WM IC dot org or on iTunes. This free service is made possible by our listeners become a member of WNYC. Today."