[1:30] ..." Former Baseball Commissioner Fay Vincent is my -- now he has a new book out an oral history. Called we would've played for nothing baseball stars of the 1950s and sixties talk about the game they"...

[4:32] ..." what the first booklets as was called the only game in. This new book is the second in this series I hope they'll -- it all depends on whether people buy the book. But there's not"...

[6:44] ..." know that the guys in the negro -- should be included. Into bill Hall of Fame and that got the ball -- That way so let it sit there have been a lot of people who"...

[15:47] ..." because of the big money there. And we do have here in New York City did you know that the RBI program is going to start a charter school in east Harlem what's it called the"...

[34:12] ..." you like the new legal Skelton policy I know live here in New York Yankees season ticket packages now actually arrive in the mail with a stub hub flyer. Instructing on how you can scalp your tickets"...

[0:00]" Hi this is Brian where you're listening to WNYC on demand. Podcasts streaming in MP3 downloads are available when you want to listen at WNYC dot org and iTunes."

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[0:42]" Woody Guthrie wrote that's on that it -- on their vote will go. Time was a Major League Baseball had a condition for opening day the Cincinnati Reds played the first game. The president of the United States throughout the first ball. Now baseball has the reopening days depending on what you count there was last week's first official game of the season between Boston and Oakland played in Japan. Last night's domestic soil opening day the ESPN exclusive Sunday night game between Washington and Atlanta. The remaining teams begin today including the Mets and Yankees but they still call -- opening day whatever. Perhaps more important baseball played its second annual civil rights game in Memphis on Saturday Mets versus White Sox. Timed to coincide with the anniversary of the assassination of Martin Luther King in that city. Former Baseball Commissioner Fay Vincent is my -- now he has a new book out an oral history. Called we would've played for nothing baseball stars of the 1950s and sixties talk about the game they laughed when he forward. Frank Robinson brooks Robinson Robinson duke snider Billy Williams and others each get chapters. In their own words Fay Vincent a former entertainment and business executive was commissioner from 1989. In 1992 we'll talk about baseball then and now and mr. Vincent thanks for coming John welcome to WNYC."

[2:03]" Well I'm glad to -- Leo thank you for having me."

[2:06]" And as a baseball fan I'll take all the opening days I can get."

[2:10]" I agree with the two we ought not to be too fussy about those I think it's it's all about local tradition."

[2:18]" Your book -- reflects American history not just baseball history and in just a minute we're gonna play. A clip from the broadcast of the civil rights came over the weekend where hall of Famer Joe Morgan doing play by play on the -- and relates something told to him by former commissioner happy Chandler. About how some white baseball superstars help pave the way for Jackie Robinson to integrate the game and I think. This ties right into some of the themes of your book but just tell our listeners a little bit fired by way of background these -- oral history transcript she went out and with a video camera I take it and spoke to 180 forward and and and and Carl Erskine and and all these all these players from the fifties and sixties."

[3:11]" I did it goes back about ten -- twelve years Larry Ritter had done a wonderful book called the glory of their times. And I heard some tapes just audiotapes those interviews smoky Joe wood and guys who played. At the turn of the twentieth century and I tried. I wonder who's doing that today I did some checking nobody was doing and so I decided to do it. Was soon after I left the commissioner's office and I got Herbert now I'm as a great trying to mine and you Erica investment banker and a wonderful baseball fan and I put this project together it's a tax exempt foundation he put up. A large percentage of the money and the idea was for me to take a very high powered good crew -- and interview people like Bob Feller and warm response. Indeed Brian the first interview I wanted to do was have Larry -- because I do Larry woods -- and I want to preserve the story of the first. Black ball player in the American league Jackie Robinson has been long dead. And I thought I had. Been able to capture that story it would be gone forever so I interviewed him as the first person. And that interview what the first booklets as was called the only game in. This new book is the second in this series I hope they'll -- it all depends on whether people buy the book. But there's not there's no financial reward -- want to make it clear all the money to their advantage goes to the Hall of Fame. To -- two promote the archival work eventually. You would be able to -- a button and be able to -- one's five and Bob. Why -- four."

[5:08]" you know if you go up to Cooperstown you know be great is if you do these books. With dvds attached I don't know if that's prohibitively expensive but we had one today we would be playing clips of these guys from your booklet crazy."

[5:20]" Well and that's the big failure on my part the problem is that the book publisher hasn't been. Interest that in you are actually correct and other people have pointed it out to me it's wanna migrate. Failing -- I -- really push it but."

[5:34]" It's all right it's up and Coopers and we've got our own clips because as I was watching the civil rights game. As they called it over the weekend preceding season exhibition game that played in Memphis. And on the week of with this -- fortieth anniversary. Of the assassination of Martin who -- thinking here is. Joe Morgan. Relating something told him by former commissioner happy Chandler about how some white superstars help pave the way for Jackie Robinson."

[6:03]" He told his story that the great stand usual help. A lot of struggle he sit stand usually were passive petition around to not play the game of the boycott any gently Robinson -- And then stand -- who who was the star. Instead was they've brought that just around us then we could get that out of my face and by him doing that. Everyone else kind of -- online and that's sold. Again here's the guys than usual unsung -- that a lot of people don't know about he made a big impact I only learned that because I had. Opportunities it would happy Chandler and he told me those things and then you'd take the great Ted Williams and his speech at the hall of faith. He said that you know that the guys in the negro -- should be included. Into bill Hall of Fame and that got the ball -- That way so let it sit there have been a lot of people who have contributed to get us to where we are in the hopefully there will be more people contribute to move forward even more so."

[6:59]" So this -- your reaction to that story or things like that reflected in your book."

[7:05]" Now they are mean that's a very nice story I didn't know that Joe Morgan is an old friend you know I think that one of the things about. Baseball that it doesn't get enough credit for is that baseball was the first American institution and a -- voluntarily it was Heidi is that vote."

[7:23]" Knowing the rest of history. Of the country 1947 really was early."

[7:28]" He had a vote among the owners -- the issue came up was fifteen to one the only one in favor of course was the Dodgers. And happy Chandler deserves a lot of credit what people say do we need an independent commissioner I always say that is the single best argument. For having an independent commissioners but commissioner as bad. Hey Cody the owners in 1940s we would not or would not have had jacking around and so so early in the game. So there's a lot that links baseball civil rights and American history."

[8:04]" Now people who don't. Follow baseball closely may not know what was behind that reference that you just made based boy used to have what was called an independent commissioners somebody who kind of presided over the administration of the game and who is charged two serve the best interest of baseball I think. The phrase goes and at some point I guess after you in 1992 and into the Bud Selig here it became that the owners chose one of they're wrong and Bud Selig of course has. Has served in the Baseball Commissioner I guess I guess since then that he immediately follow you."

[8:42]" He's sodomy but he didn't become commissioner he would sort of acting in more you know."

[8:48]" But but he was the owner of the Milwaukee Brewers so right -- UT we characterizing him as a toady of the owners."

[8:55]" No I would do that but I think in 1946. It would have been very easy for a commissioners to say fifteen and has a lot of votes and I'm not going to. Push the issue happy Chandler -- great credit. Said the one has it we're going not been as strong commissioner I've been the case -- pretty clear. -- now I think there should be an independent commission obviously I think but Taylor has -- a very good job in a lot of ways. Baseball is booming attendance money finances all. But I nevertheless I think that when there's a crisis and one based on needs to represent. It's very high moral position that helps some -- my. Happy chancellor Peter you four barge in Mondale or even myself. Because I think in the public view we -- so closely allied with the elements."

[9:57]" Fay Vincent former major league Baseball Commissioner my guest on WNYC has new collection of oral histories is called we would've played for nothing baseball stars of the 1950s and sixties. Talk about the game they love. And I want to play another clip this is President Bush last night after throwing out the first ball at the stadium in DC. He joined Joe Morgan and John Miller in the broadcast Booth for part of the game. And without even being asked the president raised the issue of baseball's decline in the inner city. Yeah."

[10:33]" Wishes that baseball kickbacks in the student. I suspect was up. Contracts are better."

[10:44]" Play longer. A certain place."

[11:04]" Clinics and inner city they --"

[11:09]" And their sport we. Send it. -- in the city. Good to be a little more excited about playing the game."

[11:19]" So President Bush with Joe Morgan and and what you thought about that commissioner the president raised that voluntarily without being cast."

[11:26]" Well he's correct you know George Bush -- president knows baseball intimately."

[11:31]" User and owner of the Texas Rangers."

[11:33]" You have when I was -- basic flaw I psalm where David and I lived in the bush family involvement in Midland Texas since 1956 and a the president was 99 year old little -- sigh heavily says come on one of the few people who remembered seeing him play little league baseball. He's actually -- and baseball --"

[11:54]" That was any good. You respect -- and say you know Leo is quoted the ancient mariner he stopped at."

[12:03]" Tell us a little that was probably about my life because it. A lot of ancient mariner crisis that great -- he stopped at one of pre. Always he's George -- that -- item you're not nice to me out tell people about your career in the the league baseball but it. He white Knight and David very loyal amazed when I had trouble with the owners he was the only person in the ownership it's and spoken in my defense and so I have been this sense what was the well they were mad at me because I was considered to be soft and the union and I wanted the owners to try to accommodate the union I didn't think that kinda defeat the union had it's. I didn't think the owners could break the union. I would write but it took. That law that big World War street fight in the nineteen. I need for one baseball and losing league World Series and back conflagration was very damaging as you know. It back to the interstate baseball made an effort that's something called RBI return baseball. The inner city which was started there have been efforts made but it's nowhere near unsuccessful one of the problems is that. Basketball and football are easier route that is their more college scholarship for basketball and football and baseball. Baseball is not a big College Board across the country. There's in the kind of money available for look what's going on with the NCAA tournament. In basketball this -- the president right but it's a very very big fight and I think the problem with baseball is that work Saturday and then. Sort of dropped so there's other things get in the way it's something's gonna take years and years and years and it has to be done very very diligently."

[14:04]" I have to admit that it kinda made me winds in that clip. When the president said. -- baseball contracts on a bigger I think he meant bigger than the other sports and I thought oh my god don't encourage. Kids in the inner city to think that their ticket out. Is to try to become Major League Baseball players because the odds are so tiny. I mean even those who go -- to NCAA what they gather as you were just rightly describing is the college scholarship so that they could study something else because such a tiny percentage of even those college basketball stars are -- gone to make a career of it in the NBA so you know I that made me wince when he said that."

[14:47]" Well you know one of the things that I try to do is only based on the inner city to education we used to run a program in Baltimore. With the help of the very fine foundation that there that says -- kids read a book a week they could play baseball and some very attractive circumstance. That's the -- some creativity but look you and I both know the only way and I society the move and and is education and education is it is is is behind them and the kids are much more interest that it. Getting in -- would rap music and baseball and drugs football because. Those with a with a big dollars and I think we've got to do much better. I'm trying to get education to be -- the latter and -- inner city it's just it's it's a massive problem."

[15:41]" will most or not but certainly most are not getting involved with with drugs but I understand what you say about the temptation because of the big money there. And we do have here in New York City did you know that the RBI program is going to start a charter school in east Harlem what's it called the the Harlem RBI. They're starting their charter school that's going to take peace. Mostly I guess mostly Latino kids in the east Harlem who were interested in baseball and build a charter school around it."

[16:10]" RBIs to wonderful program it has and as well as I would hope. I wish it had done a lot better it didn't get a lot of attention from baseball. During the years when baseball was fighting with the union. You know one of the things that the union could do is get much more involved in working with baseball to do things like this and they -- say well."

[16:34]" And baseball at the same time is making ticket prices are exorbitant so that inner city kids. Can't afford it look what's happening Yankee Stadium with ticket prices next year at the new ballpark up to 2500 dollars."

[16:47]" Yeah about baseball still has a lot of tickets you know appear willing to sit. In various places -- on any given day and baseball about half the tickets unsold I think what happens when there's games an artist hotly contested as the Yankees in the right side. They'll be allotted seats that will be available and one hopes that the prices will come down for them. You know that I did discriminate pricing that is price way up if you got a really -- product and drop the prize -- Kansas City comes. -- team that isn't going to be as attractive. Those are good ideas and I think baseball's going to continue to pursue that but you're right baseball it's not just -- the seven dollar Coca V five makes it prohibitive."

[17:38]" We'll continue in a minute with former major league Baseball Commissioner Fay Vincent I want to hear some stories from that book when we come back. I also think that title of the book we would've played for nothing there's actually very provocative and I want to ask you about that and we can take some phone calls. For former major league Baseball Commissioner Fay Vincent on this. Third of the three opening days in baseball this year 212433 WNYC. 433969 to a post to WNYC double -- time -- Russia. I swear I'm busy and -- with former major league Baseball Commissioner Fay Vincent is the book we would've played for nothing faithful stars in the 1950s and sixties. Talk about the game they love and commissioner who is really interesting to interview of the eleven maybe I should just read for people who who know some of these older players of just three down eleven games. Ralph Franco bill wrigley duke snider Robin Roberts colors and Whitey Ford Hoover dam on the killer -- Brooks Robinson frank Robinson and Billy Williams. They each get a chapter that's really in their own words culled from the interviews that you did who was really interesting to interfere."

[19:05]" Let you know -- that this all of them but that would be yet politically to correct the one. The one that I thought was fascinating was trying Robinson -- the first five manager in baseball. First the person that way in the most valuable player award in both -- and a man who has a reputation as being very commanding. Made out of -- when I ask them where he got his values are always talk about these guys and their families and I touched on his mother. And believe it or not frank Robinson got emotionally well there was literally with tears in his size and it was so moving to seeing this great ballplayer this tough cookie. Talking about how important his mother less stamina she deserves. A lot of credit the story that I -- think that's gone out of a game. California at one point for arguing and she got all over -- told them that that was not the way to play this game and -- want to see that happen. She gave them a good scolding him and he you know he remembered that and he's he's he's told -- line he didn't want his mother being disappointed the other interview that I thought was Basilan. West was Whitey Ford talking about the way he adjusted you know brand always been my theory that. Guys had great physical talent that they are also had a remarkable intelligence. And lighting Ford talked about 1961 when Maris and handle it. Although some doesn't announce them -- almost like he wanted 25 or 27 games and he talked about how we came up with two new pictures that players hadn't seen before. He's been in the league since 1950. And it pointed out what he would do if he used the old stuff in the first part of the game and then when it got important. He would start throwing one was a slider and one was to change these were two pages. These -- have not seen. And that had a lot of duties that is. Great success in there was so much. Sort of native intelligence I ask them for example why -- making -- has so much trouble about colon and you didn't. And -- said to me very simply. Commissioner my father own this alone in Queens I grew up around -- I knew how dangerous it was. And I only played every fourth today. So I could have a drink when I wasn't playing but when I was about to play the day before I did he says Clemente played every day. And of those obviously took its toll but those were such great inside of the person who really great intelligence."

[22:05]" You know which chapter I've found really interest thing about a player whose whose legacy I'm not that familiar with -- Robin Roberts yeah great pitcher for a number of teams he was briefly with the Yankees and and that was the pilot the most interest -- because he was talking about being released by Ralph -- the Yankees. In the early sixties and China sign on with I think the Pittsburgh Pirates. And keep his career going was raised in a family with three of four kids. And they asked him how much you money supply make 33000 dollars a year. 335 I think US and he just asked to make the same thing and they didn't take a month because it was too much money."

[22:43]" Yeah well the interesting thing about their village Hamlet cup is talking about. All the abuse that Jackie Robinson took from his team -- cabin was the manager Georgia native incredibly racist and insulting and cabinet would really go after Robinson and of course Robinson took. On the field he go away from very true leather in the series and entrapment finally says the guys stop -- that back. Always go and is making them. Bad Andy's telling. And then they saw a fairly cabin in the Yvenson. I can't quote you're stationed west was it -- little and so and you realize that Jackie Robinson Larry Doby. Really deserves enormous credit I'm actually the black kids today you're playing and making all the money. Have any idea what those pioneers put up."

[23:43]" Let's take some phone calls we have a lot of people want to talk to you and a lot of people writing in four -- four major league Baseball Commissioner Fay Vincent. Ron in north Bergen your and WNYC --"

[23:54]" Hey I don't -- I -- by your database all and I just got a quick question I'm -- go away. Dragged baseball mr. recently they have the armed. Still think -- street."

[24:11]" I think some of that that cut out call -- or something I guess he says the way bonds and and and steroids have -- baseball threw dirt do you feel the way. The rose treated with fair it was treated as fair."

[24:23]" There's no question I would -- that question always is should he be reinstated. And I say no for two reasons I think that had Pete rose. Admitted early that he did what he's dead bodies said he was sorry about it. Having gone out and tried to educate kids why corruption live betting on baseball is wrong I think he would have been reinstated. But saying Pete rose was always really not enough he just hasn't been able to make that -- convincing apology and I think the issue is not Pete rose it's whether there's there's incentive whether that's punishment if you will visit that turner. And I don't think there's any doubt that would baseball cap for gambling out of the game aren't they because. Even all of same quality players are kept if they're caught gambling."

[25:20]" Sir do you think there can be any deterrent. Two performance enhancing drug use. I know they have this policy in place now you know they sit on the game last night. That there's more money in developing drugs you can hide from the testers then there isn't developing the tests. To keep up with them and so do you do you really think players aren't using human growth hormone and substantial numbers today because it can't be tested for just because there's the new deterrent to shame."

[25:50]" Now I think this is probably still considerable I think that one thing baseball might do though it's very draconian and the union would -- it is equate. That kind of cheating with the gambling and say. One strike and you're out now that would really slow down the news but it's a very very harsh punishment it works and in gambler I don't think there's any question -- let every where every umpire of the executive knows. That one strike and gambling here on pro life."

[26:24]" I want to know what you want that for baseball do you want that with performance enhancing drugs."

[26:29]" I don't know I would have to think it through I think the problem is that -- is so extensive but I don't you could make it stick and I I I think I think. If you did it you don't have to have a transition rules say we're going to put it and over a period of time but -- they have read three drug violations as you well and you're subject to being. Expelled for life it's not a huge jump from tree to one. But I think it would it would take some time against the players back --"

[27:00]" Joe in the Bronx you're on WNYC hello Joe. John cited -- now I got a."

[27:06]" Okay hi I'd like this the question that -- incident who does he think is the current. Ambassador of base for among current players that's going around doing the most to promote the sport it is each Eric it's 5060 -- seemed to have. A player who stood out that we -- It is sort of an ambassador."

[27:31]" Well you know arises -- complicated society if I look at it one player that I think stands for everything we all would like. It would be. Jeter the shortstop of the Yankees I think he's. Enormous talent he -- a wonderful -- these are very high class. Young man and I think he's never done anything that would be embarrassing to himself for the baseball but you don't think about all of there are a lot of very good players pragmatic as another elegant classy. I think John Smoltz and other relief for its clients where I think Ken Griffey jr. is is spectacular ambassador in baseball I think Albert fools. Is another terrific ambassador I think there are a lot of but if you push me I would the Yankees short."

[28:28]" The title of your book we would've played for nothing is that a quote from someone."

[28:33]" It's a quote from brooks Robinson now you and I both know that. As baseball fans it's highly unlikely but he made its point -- point was the owners didn't realize. How devoted -- of the game but the fact is the owners had all the advantages in those days anyway. I'm -- provinces wonderfully articulate and superb interview but then it's a quote from him."