" From WNYC in New York public radio this is the radio lab podcast. Check out to the -- out of work or you can find more information about this regular episode. Hear more from regular and -- and other great podcasts from WNYCWNYC on demand is supported by data -- managed dikes services delivering a comprehensive suite of managed services including implementing securing and scaling applications designed for mid market in fortune 1000 enterprises data pipe dotcom boom you're -- To do yeah. You can tune -- radio and but I -- Tampa -- sleeping. This radio today's program. He's about sleep."

" I don't have to tell you how good sweetness. You do yourself. Every night you try. How wonderful when it actually works you can close your eyes and forget the day interest drift off into oblivion. Like a little baby. Let's suppose that you are a little baby just little baby you grew up to become a scientist. By one of the scientists will hear from in this program and you decide to ask. Which should be the dumbest question. Ever why do we sleep. Not just us that pretty much everything sleep as far as we know all mammals to. Paul -- he's locusts cockroaches pre fish reptiles insects scorpions everything has been studied. Has something that looks like they."

" most things we sort of know what they -- four and also how they work. But sleep is -- your face and everybody doesn't he do -- from the cradle to the grave. You can't help doing it because if you tried to stay away -- at some point it's a repressive and we don't know why. That's a shame for state of affairs and -- can -- be -- that -- different centering on the list of the."

" It's -- the -- that's pretty good way to begin government. Which came here today on radio -- going to try to correct this shameful statement figures when it comes to the subject of sleep we'll talk with people who can help us understand what it's -- we do it in what happens. When leaned out and Robert krulwich and Janet -- run with"

" For centuries people thought that sleep. -- kind of the opposite of being awake reach reasonable whom we serve because you know during the day year do you know these things you have feelings thoughts and feelings and -- You dislike. -- meters -- like sometimes a bomb could go off and you wouldn't like I do I can hardly -- up even in that prior. -- no I'm really heavy sleeper -- briefly of winning it all you've got your eyes to go to sleep. Can seem like. -- like -- off yet it off net right. -- work well the bull Shakespeare and Cervantes referred to sleep as to."

" That's doctor Carlos shank he would agree book about -- called paradox lost."

" We -- we go to bed every night we die every name. And we wake up in the morning we're alive again. And I was -- prevailing theory for centuries for doctor king the awakening to just how wrong she experience of -- whereabouts sleep. Came one day while you're sitting in that class from it's my first year medical school suspect in 90 to meet you at an emeritus professor. Who actually was a Nobel prize winner doctor up. Tackles John -- on crew uncles and here's what happens -- lecture blocks in the class who pops a cassette into the tape deck hits play. Out comes this town well the sound was or. Let me rate of a year ago."

" Well -- despite a hundred."

" This the professor announced it was found that the cats sleep well sleep."

" Kinkle Moscow last -- this -- the rain during sleep. Making these really rapid high pitched multiple. -- was clearly well that catalyst. Keep asking you to -- me it was very very alive. Much more than anyone expected and its -- still -- revelation in the picnic can't say anything -- fifth. Cats --"

" The -- that will soon be sitting in my life totally out. There's a circus happening in his brain shift cunanan."

" Imagine that in the 70s this."

" We're going to figure out anything about sleep. We have to ask the -- the room where we do all of our surgeries and luckily."

" That's easily done."

" If you're willing to -- enhanced. Base of first -- as you you have to make a decision on top of the animal's -- you've done that we drill holes. When the animals tell us."

" And and then you insert your electorate yours and you and -- and that's simply it a little window into their brain you could see right there on the on the screen I mean it's -- did you. Just put a hole with two kittens Hayden island that was my -- c'mon so what was that we were doing there we disservice. He mock surgery to iguana. Actually -- and even and I want to admit it's not a nice look look look look animal was not harmed within 20 minutes of coming out of the anesthetic the animals moving around it's eating its climbing and it's it's basking. It might seem like a rather invasive procedure but in actuality it's it's it's not -- bad at all -- Japan and a -- is John less cute he's a graduate student at the cultures department at Indian state university to every -- John gave our reporter Carol -- a tour of the lab there right here and they'll security lines. I mean there four feet long had detail -- meaning that the baby alligators."

" And John measures the brain waves that night to see what happens there and as they sleep in a way it's a continuation of that -- protection just almost not. Except when they're looking for. Is much more peculiar thing and can ever happen in the -- or not what we're what does that. We put to use the -- can and can't forget it wants dolphins and and often -- how is it that a dolphin. In the ocean or even say the dolphins that you might find at six flags in nature."

" It Cody is our ten year old Atlantic but he Avalon 12 years old that's -- trainer Megan to care. The army trying to open Mike and you know here's the -- we ask -- about this how is it. -- her to dolphins Cody now one can successfully sleep. Given the inherent challenges of being engulfed. I don't know what you've -- of the challenges of the dolphin well they have significant challenges in different person. They've got to -- and they're not conscious screeners thanks for -- so they have to think about breathing making matters worse dolphins are not fish. -- they have to breathe air which means they have to constantly consciously come up to the surface clean -- every few minutes the you can imagine what would happen. If he decides to do unconscious for a while. A bedroom -- and yet they do manage to sleep. A lot of how long eight hours a day like it in -- her hope that the -- way."

" happens is they do it we call blogging it's when they arrest on the surface the water you know analog fluid and a river just -- that's exactly what they look like. May -- have to bring in time. Cast their -- have their brain is asleep at a time. That is nature's solution. To cut the dolphin brain in -- you mean literally literally and a so that one Haskins is well the other half and keeps the dolphins swimming insurgency just enough to breeze from the outside can't really tell what's happening just looks at the dolphins sort of a week. A little out of it's almost like it's eight when you're falling asleep but something's happening you wait great -- so they're in that's eight all the time -- sort of -- can be characterized -- money runs and one of the labs back in Indiana they're sort of way of sort of it's just the way staying awake half. And again it's easy to miss if you look inside the -- young he's brain with a brain waves -- doing -- exquisitely obvious. It's clear is that six year old -- brand she's beautiful -- a second time."

" One million it's just. Jack I'll have a place"

" is that he's in yes it's called unique hemisphere Exley. That's the guys Indiana State really interest it and cause he use an X prize. It seemed to go way beyond dolphin yet it aquatic mammals like whales seals and sea lions announces that all the marine mammals -- studied seem to do it to recently walruses -- found to engage in union the spirit sleep as well. And now the Indiana team led by -- okay. By this I'm Charles -- chair of the department of ecology an -- has more biology they have found this weird split brain made hearing creatures of the in limit. Let me just back up a little bit and describe that this experiment."

" Turley an a student had been at the park one day and they notice we observed that ducks stocks. Sometimes we'll get together into groups like monologue. Ford Axl get together in snooze in in the blue line and the birds that were sitting in the middle of that. Line tended to be sleeping with both eyes closed the birds that we're sitting on the outside of that row. Pretended to look little bit more -- The inevitable question what's going on here led to a very simple experiment we put four birds in a -- form Mallard ducks this time in the lab. And they want to sleep the two birds in the center of this -- slept with both eyes closed. The birds on the out at outer edges both left and right slept with one -- closed and one -- opened. One more time slept with one high closed and one -- opened is just like another song"

" CNN tells when there -- right now I missed the they did you know and I knew they were all botanists zeroed you know an -- but that song is really about adapt to -- here."

" He's our guy the guy that was faced away from the group the -- that was facing towards. We're potential predators might come from. That stayed open. At this point Charlie had a pretty good idea of what was going on because he knew that inside bird brains each. Is attached to the opposite hemisphere the left has attached to the right hemisphere. The right guy is attached to the left hemisphere so his team and planted some -- is. The measure with the -- prints were doing and -- like the dolphins the -- to we're sleeping one half of their brain at a time the bird could simultaneously sleep and be awake. Not only that here's the cool part after a few hours what happened was is that the birds that were on the outer edge then would rotate stand up turn around 180 degrees and then sit back down and the other guy -- get some sleep. And consequently the opposite hemisphere --"

" When we saw that Italy if you look at that -- that that the good because break there in the ducks as the perfect illustration. What these guys tickets sold out he got to sleep for whatever reason right but sleep. Is danger danger danger danger this headlines for dolphins and the main dangers -- danger danger you know for dogs and getting eaten. I mean yeah they don't have to sleep injured but how can that change. When lurking in the darkness or Fox's painful than a hundred other eaters of ducks."

" You might think. It's I don't dislike -- In another nifty experiment John took the residents sneak Monty it's it's. -- think he is what -- four foot long python. And tonight he's accused John -- Monty python into the room where his iguanas. And he terrifies me plumbing Monty was in the cage so he couldn't really hurt -- but as soon as that snake appeared all the lizards popped one very -- And the train that overnight raid on -- the snake at a picnic in the room an auction but night that's deeply nine and they don't like these next that your name remove this -- from the -- the next day in and they're still looking for the next Snyder to. It's of the keep 19 you know train on the door for a few more by two or three days they go back to bring --"

" So what does the army."

" Will think about this became all the sea mammals and be doing -- novelist once have been studied all the flying creatures they do it."

" The reptiles seem to do it to who does that lead. You mean who's left not sleeping with a half a brain on in the other half a brain off yet among us. We we may be the strange ones well this sort of strange and that terrestrial mammals can't do it terrestrial mammals is for some reason have lost the ability to do this."

" All mammals that -- to terrestrial mammals the ones that that live homeland. He hears is here sometime long ago. Our ski you read ancestor wandered up on the land I think he'll take a whole list pianist --"

" Always duck and it was safe and for the first time millions of years of evolution how little creature I. -- closed both of -- eyes."

" And so we lost. Well well totally speculative theory of course but this idea there was if you are protected and safe if you can afford. To close both sides -- out completely for the simple idea safety and explains why these guys think almost everything we're -- sleep. How -- sleep a long piece it all boils down. Two words predation risk. Predation risk predation risk which is really just a fancy way of saying generally speaking -- your risk of being killed the risk of being eaten now."

" What does this have to do -- He react top of the food chain."

" Warm and it's nice warm -- locked doors unlocked door covers he nice neighborhood the good police force looking after Hewitt nighttime. And you live in the country that happens very secure living environment. You would think this whole tradition risk idea has nothing to do us. Well there's a few studies that have looked -- see sleep patterns where people are sleep."

" In the mobile environments it's a novel and apparently you mean look at who. The first night at a hotel my music genome sequence that first night tell on your first night of sleeping in a hotel room generally have less REM sleep and -- deep slow wave sleep. Relative to sleeping in New Yorkers."

" I I definitely -- I don't see our coverage. The -- one night. Replaces something I asked -- some folks that actually hypothesized or certain creditor. -- really in the brain danger danger. Danger and that these circuits to remain active at all times. And would if that's true."

" We all area teen parent child brain sort of creditor older system perhaps in some of us. Too little too sensitive half. Okay we're in the crew the Minnesota regional sleep disorders and a mission control we call. Reviewing the typical -- terror episodes this little girl who is 5 years old. -- AG's sleep terror episodes every single night that's doctor Carlos hank we heard from -- in Minnesota now -- anything county sleeps under your asleep where he works. We're standing in front of them. Grainy black and white video the little girl in her PGA's screenings -- Technician discovered an odd category sleep disorders called Paris Communist to what we can talk to them -- Means around some new means sleep around -- this might be the human analog to the ducks. People whose brains never quake shut off completely drinks. This -- he has seizures from an unknown he doesn't wizard. -- tape after tape reviewing a man. We are very -- called Santa Claus. From the screen large guys -- back and -- His legs and movies going back before -- decides is back then suddenly he starts to."

" Everything."

" This real. Yes this is in the amount of sleep is knowing beauties to and one of the interesting things. Let's check noticed when -- first you know diagnosed -- us in the early 80s is that while they were in that kind of criminal space around sleep huge percentage of the patients would have these visceral dreams of being attack. The common theme is a menace is supposed from nowhere coming out of nowhere is an immediate threat that you just -- ignore -- without way you have to either fight it or run away from."

" Well I went to sleep and in my sleep I had this dream that. I was being chased by this gang of kids that's John -- he's one of doctor king's early patients and my response was I actually who literally. Jumped out of bed and I'd dole out the second story window on through a screen. -- to roof. The rooftop and the was. Big country and it slid down with nothing on the east -- John most ill slid 20 feet Downey pine tree and then. Bolted down street yelling. Still sleep the neighbor's dog was nipping at my heels I was almost at the end of the block. And I remember slowly gaining consciousness what looked down in my whole chest and stomach was just blood."

" He's he's he dreams can be turned violent this is Martin's of Bel age 88 he's another -- next -- remember. Someone coming up the stairway. In Martin's case the attackers never had a face it sometimes it was a bear and I am in school and a funny little did he yell and hair that's Martin's wife -- reached him. He was always trying to protect me I'd have black and blue bruises on my arms and hands because I was seeing it work."

" Not infrequently the main streaming in bed with his wife that he is fighting to defend her from the attacker when in fact he's beating -- I mean how were sleeping in all of a sudden. He's got his hands tightly around maestro. I am petrified. Quick mart you're dreaming you're hurting me she should. Bar near her united Gertrude in Martin's of Dallas still married believe it or not after 57 years. Those she did force him to sell his guns has never been happy about the then buried them. So you're suggesting -- that all these people. And the iguanas and the docks and the dolphins you all have up portion of their brain which is leery in the not a Saddam hinting want to go any stronger than Hinton the there seems to be. Something in us it's always watching out always. Weary bottom line here though is that. Sleep -- all creatures is a dangerous thing in the few unfortunate people are still awake to -- that. -- right before we go to break and so I think and Hebron for an excellent reporting and Minnesota and also for -- polar. And -- my news stay with us because we're going to turn attention shortly. From danger. Two deprivation. They deal -- continue to moment."

" Yeah this is radio you -- coach in your engine and run and today our public on media lab asleep is something that all of us do we can't help but do it it's dangerous to do it -- and it's universal think about honesty is dangerous and state could have been. Circumvented -- Natural selection -- would have found a way to do it but Steve -- again from Indian state university it because it but it just be such a great idea and -- on -- but there are times when you just can't sleep. -- one of the 35 million Americans. And who have chronic insomnia you just can't sleep you know why it just doesn't happen or maybe you do to yourself. In people all -- for school are -- to drive long distances. Or in used to going to turn attention to next may be it is done to you. -- that the case with producer and a talent she kept this audio diary of her own experiment with sleep deprivation."

" She has an 18 month old son. --"

" You can -- on. For the record."

" It is my first day back at work. Do this thing. -- June 8. I just think couldn't even particularly. That was that are obscene and computer screen and try to communicate that to the curator there -- four. Those words didn't calm I -- And then I think -- to actually since may because none out on that can rapidly. I didn't. -- markets and -- nothing nothing would come out. Persistent -- definitely. So really that was my first day back work."

" And."

" Dominic well in her sleep. I'm trying to get him to sleep and then we ten."

" This -- a smoke. It here's the funny thing everybody has the theory. -- to containment system to -- and her theory is that he's not getting enough milk because milk and some. Agent and it can would have densely and he doesn't like now it's true. And the people -- whom he'd just -- exercise and it just gets fracture next consensus that government. If you just let him cry he would sleep all night if -- just would do whatever it is we're not doing he would sleep. --"

" And -- just human like."

" Did you humanly I am doing wrong wrong leaders and the failure as a parent can. -- Jesus."

" Completely -- I mean it to record does one thing really quickly and that is. Yesterday and today have been struck by. -- and struck by these waves."

" Satisfaction and delight with being alive in this amazing landscape. But it but he -- mountains and and lobster and you know maybe it's a little more sleep and then suddenly feeling. And so. Can't get it to get the plane. Here -- And and -- and often."

" Okay that whole crew in loving life yeah talk on the room. It's pretty much because dominant -- taking -- We came room from the beach protect wear him out. And an appointment to stories pictures and I realized that and talents to the sleep deprivation and Marines that hold. Saying -- that. I can't heating cream. From having my own needs subvert it to the needs this little tiny person. Which when you're not sleep deprived is not a big deal."

" I I tired old. I don't want to wish a minute of -- next childhood away think that that's so precious to me. Pinch hit -- the the I've been looking for a record two. That moment when and they'll say honey and to go to sleep and he does it. You -- him. Clues -- for. There's my personal pick someone it's like. To be sleepy. And -- craved sleep as much as you crave water or breath."

" Your son Dominic and her husband Steve -- Now -- and a that there is science question lurking in the background which is win you know when Hannah was -- tired why did she feels that way. You know what will be. Because she's. -- have been sleeping well yeah -- but what makes her you know what is the essence of tired yes lack of sleep hello. Chemically asking chemical and what is happening to her if you always down in her cells could you see something tired like going on that's that's a good question actually and Greg thinks because I -- guy who has a theory about this and I think tiger quote let me just because -- totally be different from it and then be believable and this is doctor Alan Patton in addition to being a rabbit golf fan he's also a -- but can be rabid biologists. -- at the University of Pennsylvania he's been looking at sleep down at the cellular and one -- these counts over and over no and that's been shown in my -- is -- and rats insurance -- line is that inside certain cells in all those different animals when the sleep to -- intentionally -- happens is -- you don't -- proteins properly fold it. Excuse me the routines properly folded into the phenomenon called unfolded protein response when unrest is in need. As a good thing or bad thing you asking why do you need protein to property -- Yankees that's and that's what you're made of proteins proteins are. The essence of the so if you -- proteins I'm misshapen but they're not folded properly."

" He's doing fold proteins properly don't have that -- the dimensional structure and as a result the start accumulating inside the south. And in these different unfold proteins can -- team together and form clumps. And save the -- essentially clog our. And in truly great toxic to cells --"

" Well being this equals tired it would be his parliament member went -- was sold. Exhausted him. Kind of justice will because she hasn't slept much -- inside -- sells -- of these valuable little routines have not folded properly that he thinks is the consequence of not having enough sleep so. Maybe what's going on as the cells can't do your business quite as well and things start to -- to have -- across hold your body to a few. But windshield pizza sleep remember which so happy now suddenly feeling. Because of the sleep -- keep a group of clean your rappers have gone through her cells removed the toxic and Michigan proteins so that care. It affects sleep is the best house mean you've ever had in the hotel have you. And this idea the idea of sleep as a cleaner upper. Might even explain one of the most basic things about us as humans. How we -- that's the notion of doctor Julio took us. Testing testing testing my producer Alan horn and I went to visit him at his offices in Madison, Wisconsin. What do we think it was that we don't know what it's like a football."

" But like a quarterback Terry -- and -- But back."

" Super big but not overwhelming yes you -- you know. And when things secret as totally Enron because there's to be here right now."

" He has the very attractive guy -- sandy blond hair and glasses she's actually more that sensitive guy intellectual that a linebacker producers Madrid's annoyance I am a professor of psychiatry here it goes to Wisconsin Madison but when he comes to -- his specialty. He thinks sleep very seriously -- what conclusions sleep. -- his team annihilation of conscious so it's a terrible time in which everything is appears to universe and yourself with it. I think if people didn't sleep and didn't have the unconscious -- that possibly wouldn't even realize. That -- is an enormous gift so being a weak then he's -- wonderful but it's what happens when -- asleep he says. That's what allows you to -- very important connections -- and he noticed this first. When he was connecting with -- and -- it was a good times playing music I used to play for us to play classical guitar I'm sure many people who play. Musical instruments known that you made train and train and train on -- during the day. And you get better for sure. But you never perfect. And then just sleep over -- next day you wake up. You played again and -- reason you know it flows through it."

" I haven't you happen to me. After some lots of people that are committed all -- on."

" I discovered that sometimes society. Worked on apiece and put away went to some rust had better learn to benefit. Suitable like cramming yeah."

" Definitely in this one and story it and then got -- this for a long time it. -- personal prominently played in the band together the standards of the sisterhood of convoluted thinkers and we switch instruments like alive she's in communities where. As an accountant to learn how to -- so we rented a Chapman who went to murder first and -- and -- she was really just. Kind of practicing and practicing trying to get this is months -- maybe -- who worked on it. A lot to just keep going kind of thing and one thing in -- again. And a scientist gave up Atlantis. And the next morning I got up and land links to eight -- and I just played it. Immediately the -- the stools Jews from."

" just to."

" As magic. You can just learn -- years"

" doing -- in the middle of the -- of the things that your fingers did repeatedly. And the notes that you were using to propel your fingers all those things and I got into got more. Got better learned so you learned overnight you. But it was -- to do with -- you remember or better in the morning at what happens is that the next thing you have -- zero. What happened during the night to make you better off as opera contention to -- contention is that sleep helps you remember. They forget. Kinda -- let me explain you what he's police -- He says this is a limited amount of space mean you were bringing the real estate in the brain's speed limit limited. And excellence -- small little guy up there yet and yet every experience you have during the day is going to take -- but he uses little what you gonna. When you want to wake. Inevitably you whether you want it on -- going around talking to me having breakfast happy medium coffee going to work. In your phone what do you friend medium term. -- didn't into the friends and going home. Taking asked us to Baghdad again and again everything you do during the day every thought he -- no matter how small all crosses your brain to form new connections. This conversation as we -- having it is reshaping neighboring yeah. Little path to his reforming the winter was five cents down --"

" Our weather we recognize that not a lot of things are going to change your brain by the end of awakened so if in the middle of the afternoon -- down with your guitar. And you practice the guitar in the."

" Those two hours you're also making connections. Because you're concentrating maybe you're making more connections."

" He's you guitar connections and old loosen that two connections made during the day was yeah. Of Iraq are gone."

" By the time you meaty fish we."

" And that is where we think -- kicks him. -- only guess here but I think you'd think that sleep is a garbage detail the comes and says okay you're done you're done you're done it's every even simpler than that. According to Tony there's not -- gender who comes in decides okay you have to leave you can state nothing like that instead he says what happens I think that. Do you sleep when we just."

" Of electrical activity kind of like a leak even back. Why shall we hear these sort of the back here head to the these waves or slow or -- And over the course of the night 1000 times a night those waves wash through all the experiences of your game. All the Wilson that the connection you made all day long and every one of those connections all of its system in the open so there. They -- progress we gracefully think it. Even he says that things you want to hold on to like the Qatar."

" Wait a second we just thinking you with the what is that you learn how to play the instrument in the afternoon he went to sleep when you play the -- better in the morning yeah. Why would you wake up they're exporting playing better usually playing more weakly with less confidence and less memory because after all you've just. Given the whole place about."

" It's all relatives -- Would you used by a relative to this. That that mix of new connections in your head yeah some of those connections are soft and some of those connections through outer the random things you ordered from -- Okay but the guitar cause you spend so much time thinking about guitar technique he spent so much energy on it that's louder and which is measuring connections here now imagine that sleep is a big."

" Volume now so listen to what happens when you lower the volume on the whole it where. Learn and we'll work."

" Now here's how the softer stuff just all -- he can hear it anymore here but. The -- is getting softer too because it was so -- to begin with now it stands out a bit more clearly now. Yeah to signal some of them have survived reasonably well. -- bachelor because background has become so. -- your ability to play the guitar better than exporting is not because you've learned skills overnight that you didn't have before. This goes all the other stuff taken the -- green has gone down in volume. And you're left with relatively speaking a better in Qatar. Fingering can you put your finger work."

" So mr. qanooni feels that sleep is a little bit like we didn't being -- pass a severe room. He ended today a rather accusing of them Britain the things left standing. But things --"

" We should which could break. Okay so coming up next to those of us who could get to sleep. Next a chance to dream this radio man on Chatham on graphical you continue to --"

" This is radio love on -- and I'm Robert."

" Today's program it's not sleep as in the current -- pretends to dream exactly -- you the story about the -- the benzene molecule. Middle speak nutrients move while -- have been using my 1865. German chemist is trying to figure out the shape of this molecule -- he knows as certain amount of one kind and a minister -- another he can't figure out how they all. Linkup in -- tortured by this problem ghost sleep here has a dream of a snake. Biting its tail wakes up bolts right up. It is. It's in me. -- bring you complete -- wanted we're going to look at your own I hated people its own the teams hated and one at Stefan came with a fork."

" Frankly could be -- that is I don't know why -- never going to tell you about my jeans again and I'm going to put the but you know you're not alone because for a long time scientists have to have a wouldn't that he could they they think -- so random and meaningless. And I'm study a ball right but we do -- guys I'm about stick gold ST IC KGO DM an associate professor of psychiatry at Harvard Medical School who found it interesting way to ask the question why do region. Simple question. Very hard to answer. Roberts tickled was one of the first modern scientists to take dreams seriously and for him -- be actually begin kind of accident."

" I'd been up in Vermont profoundly we have gone and climbed camels higher he should climb mountains in Vermont. We Garnett 8 in the morning we were back at two in the afternoon and for that whole day -- Kleiman on the rocks -- them with his hands really climbing. Later that night and I don't close my eyes. War but he feels Iraq and in my hands. And I sort of external and I think well. That's truly bizarre it was like I was thinking about it I was here -- it feels Iraq. Had been often -- for eight hours nephew my dad happened and light on that for three minutes -- And -- they're a threat again I felt awfully. Two hours later wake up after the bathroom that bathroom -- come back I think that was recourse to try that again. Wore out and I can not get it back what happened in those two hours to those memories that they won't intrude anymore. And I started talking to friends in the fifth of strike trek from doing. We're -- fish try -- try Whitewater rafting if you want to get that from enough of -- hello take organic chemistry. And you go to bed at night and are you -- he's pretty molecules rotating in front of your life those daytime activities. Are affecting your dreams and that got him thinking what exactly is the connection between what you do doing today and accusing the night."

" What are the rules that he figured irate pulled this replays kind of -- may be a test. But how if I get some subjects together what could have been killed during the day. It would reliably and the -- their dream we can't have mobile for heighten and then probably not going to get permission to take them Whitewater rafting too expensive so what couldn't sort of sat fallow for a year. And I was moaning through some of my students about how I can't think of how to do this and someone says. --"

" And somebody else says oh absolutely. And I should watch what. If you -- don't you -- tetris. When you start playing tetris."

" And that when you start playing --"

" Go to bed at night united and -- he -- tetris pieces falling down here sure. You have is an actual you guys both know that you know. -- I had a cover of science magazine for the first published. Papers and dreaming in 40 years because I discovered that an everybody already you're. It was that simple he got a bunch of people put him in a room had a played had just later that I they woke up. And 60% of we teaming of actress it's 60% you know just their importance -- as they're following the secret monitoring them. In a two physiologically him as they start to drift off to sleep. These important."

" The center's observation was a pretty good start. Terms of getting at and questioned why do we view line between how does that work. What it. As the next step instead of having the people report their findings waking them up and do nothing what is. Instead he could cut the personality equation entirely go right to the source. -- dream directly. -- met Wilson -- a researcher here at MIT. And governor of scientists studying learning and memory that's what's done Matt Wilson."

" Takes us the dream last or first come in what we see is this bank of monitors. 13 monitors on around each monitor displaying ongoing activity in the brain little panels each panel Schilling needs -- the Kennedy Space Center really all the monitors have data -- so clashing all over the rafts and squiggly lines and numbers it's. It's not immediately clear world this information is coming from. If you -- around the back you'll see that all the computer -- go to one box which -- connects to a cable which and goes up to the ceiling over to a wall and down. Into the head into the head. Of one city tiny -- area with this just coming in out in his own little baskets and just resting at the Buddha himself. They're he looks pretty normal except for this take cables -- skull and the cables basically a microphone mister Abacha in which -- uses to ease traffic on the brain cells inside the -- and as a chit -- And with the sounds."

" But."

" You can hear this kind of snap crackle pop sound that these are individual selves that are firing. But her. Right there right when those kind of pushing south. I can tell this animal sitting resting quietly."

" Mason he says this really aspect to him. He is so fluid with the Morris code language of -- free itself doesn't even after a -- look if the animal to know is doing. In Sydney -- code all of us snapping. Like that guy in the matrix the -- I don't even see the -- I see is upon brunette -- and just by listening Matt knows when the animal is sitting he knows when it is sleeping he knows when it's running around in amaze even can tell which direction it's trying to just help."

" And then as we were studying these patterns on the animal -- that the experiments in animals would they get tired then go to sleep. I would be -- there in the room but I would continue to listen activity -- was house got silent. -- noticed that needles were asleep brain cells work. Just firing randomly. Fact the animals are going from Rem sleep. Now he isn't going into rambling patter perfected here knows it's not these -- anymore sounded very much like. The pattern that the animal had just been running through. If you were watching the animal you think though analysts got nobody is running around again in turn it's again."

" It's -- He checked the data it wasn't simply a threat was running around in his mind -- body was asleep needs to be running a specific route. The same fact they have run earlier in the day seems secrecy mortars everything. It was re running its -- two civilians the next question."

" I haven't seen the things that they saw while they were way. We can actually look at these questions as a -- the patent for the extra fee that is we see evidence of replay and basically all the parts of the brain that we have looked him."

" They see the -- demand through the various inmates yes this is and is Indies as well they are how we define dreaming. So sounds like an enemy that -- I mean but the question remains -- with a rat or any creature do you notice and so Matt came up with a simple. Next experiment he decide to give direct to -- what would that do to extremes."

" What everyone on if they run on -- number one. And then on me as number two we see them running means one in these two together in a way that they did not experience when you're away. It's like a remixed it that he's a pattern makes its part of me is one and likes it turns up on Iraq had more than one -- memory. She began to invent. Completely new -- this gives us that the thought that sleep is this unique opportunity to basically run through a -- to put them together. In ways that may not have occurred."

" While this week."

" And that's what learning really is learning about synthesis -- taking things that were apparently unrelated figuring out to connections figuring out the rules to hidden rules the undiscovered rules. That will allow us to create something new I think. Genius at a time when we try out the possibility of then we can we might not feel we're we're trying and and it really works this can be profoundly important. If Roberts tickled his running you know how does this solving the problem things have to -- to bring decide what to put."

" Into a dream that I would to he's out of green when the interest of things about truth is that people don't have genes were there. Word processing where they're surfing the -- these things that they spend huge amounts of their day doing. Don't get into the -- that somehow tetris gets in there every time we gotten completely -- Now he has a hunch which he sexy spun in a completely different video game briefly moved to a game called Alpine racer which we brought out of hurt her cage she showed us that. Took us down the hall to to the game room here and there in the corner it's stood. Oh well it. Full -- game -- I stepped -- to thank you penalize -- kind of it's still warming -- off."

" Downed a virtual mountain."

" But I am going down I'm also hero who also went into people doing big thanks to Terry and their be careful of the war. -- got a head and hand them to go talk three right there. We're going to go through the tunnel listen. How all that hurt because you can hear this scheme was really stressful we have been divided -- designed Robert testicle has the."

" as you go huge -- shivering constantly. He motions. I think emotional content. Like when you run into a virtual street for example from your brain is going to flag that stuff it's going to flag that is important it is who I need to remember -- what we're going to be going to put sticky on this whatsoever but just thinking and everything that's hard during the day. And -- has to do it's pretty good dream this girl regret sticking."

" God I died but I -- nice. Just for the record you've got further than jet on your first track well. Math and it's over the -- In her brief statement it will so you have to play Alpine racer for 45 minute bursts throughout the day what happens next UH MI monetary reserves brain activity and chest as the following suit -- in the first two minutes. After the fall asleep. Will break them up. --"

" There's a microphone right next than bad and they just report what was going through their minds I was just thinking about. Skin cool. We get on the first night up to 40% of all the reports being about -- mountains. It'll here 40% almost half of them. And that's right up there but I would expect to fiesta trauma or something he's been labeled so intensely that the brain says okay it's obvious. What's on the agenda for tonight."

" Stick gold thinks he's seeing the outline of the dream making process here it starts really simply the very beginning asleep right after you falsely and with the -- This he suspects is just the brain and Kenya on its sticky things that really intrigued me during the David that I helped during the day -- but what happens. If we let the people go to sleep sleep through hours like I did -- very first time to -- in the mountain. Wakes them up. After two hours of sleep because remember he couldn't get back the memory of the rocks after he'd spent two hours -- astray and -- found is that if you fast -- two hours into the dream get almost no reports of skiing at all -- replay. Seems to dissolve. To a -- start getting reports like. By -- Tyrus."

" Hello again just really downhill Eric were."

" For the purpose -- Amanda. Thinking of national mourning those particular about about two -- he's someone else."

" Had a dream that they were rushing through a forest with their body incredibly stiff and their legs not moving at all if -- conveyor belt."

" It's like as a dream goes on the brain is starting to free associate. What do I have my past poisoning into the mountains and do crashing -- skiing anything at all. He can help me what do I have all my memories. My case from the last 60 years that fifth. Associates equity thematic tree and the result. Might seem random it is but every so often he says you come up with the right answer so now we get your dreams of people. Discovering the structure of -- was his name and -- execute visited the August -- he -- German and I talked about earlier and had a dream of the snake eating its tail and realize from that dream that they. Shape of the benzene molecule incinerating I don't know if that dream is true. But maybe that is in fact the poignant dream. It -- time when you shut off the outside turn inside take the problems that you've got its start to really work and pulled apart. Make connections that you would normally make during the day."

" All however. Have you ever wondered why would be necessary when solving problems like this to Dreamz -- and you at all puzzled. By the super duper technicolor extraordinarily cinematic qualities of these things because if -- in -- And every day brain function to sort of makes sense of the world allowed to make new connections you really wouldn't need. Quite some movie qualities so when we talked about dreams. What seems to come into dreams our memories concepts relationships associations that have managed to on the emotional flavor. And I'm guessing from the data. Need a full blown orchestra issues to be properly process and it is its technicolor colors -- overwhelming I'm sitting here you they would."

" Singer obvious question why entry so did it is that. Don't know but maybe did visit this helps hold on answers were at Harvard professor says instead of thing I don't know."

" Thanks to -- If you want any more information on anything here it's our visitor website radio -- or. Is -- more information about sleep primarily on their guests will be more information on sleep and consent for podcasts that you love got. Also -- send this email read you love at W._N. YC -- or."

" member also sleeps fell backwards his heels. Which would you do to an orange grapefruit -- and -- I'm -- code of feeling."

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